DISCLAIMER:If you are sensitivity to indecorous language, please do not read. The very fact that this is a specialized religious seminar is vulgar in nature.
Joe Beam, a self-proclaimed ecstasy expert, is coming to the Oklahoma City area to teach the men of Oklahoma how to fulfill their wife's sexual ecstasy, according to the flyer sent out by the Del City Church of Christ.
Notes from the flyer...
“Too many Christians are miserable in their sex lives because they don't understand the freedom God has given. From God's Word, I show Christians how to have fun, exciting, and fulfilling life of romance and sexual ecstasy.”
“In the popular session on sex Joe not only reveals truths from the Bible that will change your SEX life overnight, but he also answers the most common questions about sex Christians ask.”
Send me your thoughts.
~ rick
29 comments:
This far out left wing liberal does nothing to shock me! Brother Beam teaches false doctrine........by the way how does he know what my wife desires in the bedroom? It is none of his business. Arrogance is a good word to describe his mindset.
Concerned member of the Del City congregation
You are absolutely right. I went to his web site and looked over his writings and viewed his videos they are things that may be discussed in counseling sessions of couples that are in need of such but to develop a seminar and to use the words he does in public (mixed audiences) is nothing more than vulgar!
We hope that many call the elders at Del City and voice their opposition to Joe Beams "arrogance” as you so appropriately put it.
I am glad to hear that not all the Del City members are behind this event.
~ rick
Herein is a sample his vulgarity. Go to http://www.familydynamics.net/homeversion.htm and watch the 15 min video. Please do not view this video with kids around or in a public setting.
Here is a sample seminar topics from his own web site -Sex and the Bible (Why did God give us the gift of sex? Technique. The Ten Prohibitions. Q & A.) Technique? Is this what the church that our Lord die for has become, watching a “dirty old man” put a condom on a banana!
It sounded like this was only for men. It says in your article "teach the men of Oklahoma". It also sounds like this is something you can choose to attend or choose not to attend. Could you please show me from the bible what is exactly wrong with this seminar?
First, could you show me from the Bible where such a seminar is authorized?
Second, it is not only for men, nor does the flyer give any age limit. Will high school teens be able to attend? Why not teach them how to have good sex before they get married and you won’t have the problems? You can “nip it in the bud” as they say.
Third, did you go to the web-site and listen to the 15 min. video as I ask earlier? This will explain what is exactly wrong with this seminar. His language is unbecoming of a child of God (cf. Eph. 4:29; Col. 3:8). Just because Dr. Ruth is a fowl mouth old lady and has destroyed American society therewith, does not give us the right to follow in her steps.
Fourth, do you really think that this is what the Lord’s church should be focusing on as many die in their sins?
Fifth, I have not mentioned this yet, but Joe Beam is fellowshipping with denominations in these seminars.
~rick
First, could you show me from the Bible where such a seminar is authorized?
I will show you where it is authorized as soon as you show me where multiple containers for the wine, microphones, and parking lots are authorized.
Look at what he actually says in the flyer. "From God's Word, I show Christians how to have fun, exciting, and fulfilling life of romance and sexual ecstasy" Are you saying we cannot have a seminar where the bible is discussed? Is the church not aloud to hold a seminar on any bible subject?
I cannot view the video because of my computer.
I would caution you to not say things about a congregation which you do not have evidence for. Is this not a sin? I don't think the Del City church would ever condone premarital sex. You need to take your staement back and repent.
Well, we have gone from a conversation about the matters at hand to wild incrimination. Allow me to start with the last and most serious statement that you have made. I have not said one thing about the congregation in Del City therefore, I am without sin therewith. I never said that the church in Del City condoned premarital sex. I think that you ought to repent for putting words in my mouth.
If you cannot view the video because of your computer you may have to find another one because I simple refuse to discuss, in this open format, what this vulgar man says to open audiences. Filthy words and discourse are poisonous and infectious, as putrid rotten meat: they proceed from and prove a great deal of corruption in the heart of the speaker, and tend to corrupt the minds and manners of others who hear them; and therefore Christians should beware of all such discourse (Henry).
What I am saying is that this man is vulgar in his speech during these seminars and since when is it the churches job to teach men how to bring their spouses to sexual ecstasy?
Now to your first statement about authority, please explain, “And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him” (Col. 3:17)? I need to know if your saying that we should not have multiple containers for the wine (by the way, it’s not wine, but fruit of the vine, rlp), microphones, and parking lots or you are saying that it is actually ok to engage in behavior that is not authorized. Which is it?
~ rick
You are asking for the scriptural authoruty for a seminar is and I am simply pointing out that there are many things which you probably practice for which there is no specific authority for in the bible. Do you think it would be wrong to have a financial seminar or an AA meeting in the church?
By the way you might not have said anything specifically about the congregation but you implied it. Is this how Christians should act? You should apologize and repent because of the very fact that you would even bring such up in this conversation.
My friend, you make a false accusation and based upon that false accusation you admonish me to repent. When that is brought to your attention you sweep it under the rug and say that I should repent for even bringing it up. I did not make the arrogant statement that I could teach the men of Oklahoma a few things about pleasing their women. I did not send out the flyers. I did not put on my web-site such vulgar language for all to see (did you have opportunity to view the video???). A twelve year old boy can view this video and his parents thinking “Hey, what’s the harm; it’s a Christian web-site. This is promoted by the Del City Church of Christ.”
I implied nothing about the congregation and even praised one member of the Del City Church of Christ. You are barking up the wrong tree. By the way, you still have not repented for making a false accusation against me. An honest and good brother who realizes that he has sinned against another would openly repent of such. I wait, only then can we have a discussion about the fact of the matter.
Listen, lets be clear about this point, and just because I, preachers or congregations practice some things does not automatically justify the practice. All things must be justified by the Word of God. The New Testament is the final authority. Not me! Not you! Not the congregations were we worship!
~ rick
It seems to me you have taken the easy way out of this discussion. You have tucked tail and run. When you want to discuss the issues at hand let me know.
“When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom” (Pro. 11:2).
“Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honour is humility” (Pro. 18:12).
~ rick
Would you please tell us what premarital sex has to do with the seminar and why you mentioned it?
Why did you quote the scriptures that you quoted? Are you accussing someone of being proud or haughty?
It seems to me that someone needs to work on their holier than thou attitude.
Again, let me stress this for those who have not gone back to read the former post – I did not say anything AT ALL about the seminar promoting pre-marital sex!!
Why is it OK for you to accuse me of a “holier than thou attitude” and I cannot accuse other of pride? It would seem to me that the “pot is calling the kettle black.” By reading the post you would have understood that the former anonymous put words in my mouth and then accused me of sin therein. After this was brought to his attention he swept it under the rug. False accusations need to be taken care of and the former anonymous refused to do so, thus ending the conservation.
And yes, it is pride that keeps a man from admitting his error and repenting.
~ rick
Last time I checked, churches of Christ believed in autonomous congregations.
What authority do you have to tell the shepherds of an autonomous congregation how to lead the congregation or what is best for that congregation? You are neither a minister, deacon, or elder in that congregation, so it seems that you are inserting yourself into the business of an autonomous congregation which you do not belong to.
I may not like what this man says or teaches, but I will not focus on this speck of sawdust when in my own congregation there may be a log that needs to be removed.
Maybe you should take that advice to heart, deal with the people God has entrusted you to build up, rather than making yourself the great defender of all church of Christ congregations and inserting yourself into the leadership decisions of shepherds entrusted with the care of an autonomous congregation.
You have still not answered the question "Would you please tell us what premarital sex has to do with the seminar and why you mentioned it?"
One of the problems with some in the Church of Christ is that they want to spend all of their time trying to govern and police other congregations. This seems more like Catholicism than NT Christianity.
Biblical ignorance destroyed God’s people on many occasions and it may very well do so today. Please friends, do not use biblical autonomy (a good and sound doctrine) to justify your unwillingness to negatively defend the truth of the gospel regardless of whenever, wherever, or by whom ever it is challenged (Jude 3; Phi. 1:27-30). By they way, just a side note, I do not care what the churches of Christ believe – I care what Jesus and His holy apostles and prophets taught as divinely recorded by the Holy Spirit in His Word.
Do you think my heart so calloused that it does not ache for my brethren (2 Cor. 11:28). When your brethren suffered through the hurricane season in the Gulf of Mexico, did you or the congregation were you worship send money and aid? If no, then maybe you are the calloused one? If yes, then it is right in your eyes to send money but not the truth to another congregation? Besides, they made it my business when they invited me and the brethren were I worship.
Allow me this question my friend; can the leadership of a congregation make a fatal decision? In making that decision can the congregation, as a whole, follow their leadership and both fall into the ditch? Why then is it wrong to point out that the direction they are going is the wrong direction? It would seem, would it not, that the Christian thing to do is to “love the brotherhood” (1 Pet. 2:17)?
Again, you people want to decry my speaking out against this vulgar man but you cannot do it without judging my motives. Remember this, “...it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. 4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord” (1 Cor. 4:3-4).
~ rick
I will answer your question IF AND ONLY IF you answer mine. Where did I ever make the comment that this seminar had anything to do with premarital sex? You are barking up the wrong tree!
My friend, you know nothing about me, do you? How many people have you taught the truth of the gospel to over the past three months? How many of those have been baptized? As Paul, “I speak as a fool” (1 Cor. 11:23). We have been involved in four campaigns across the United States. We have taught thousands upon thousands of lost souls the gospel of Christ and have baptized many into the Lord’s body including denominational preachers. Don’t presume to tell me where I spend my time. We sent out 80,000 Reflections just this past month edifying the Lord’s church with basic Bible teaching.
Allow me this question, have you seen the video?
~ rick
I believe you wrote the following.
"Second, it is not only for men, nor does the flyer give any age limit. Will high school teens be able to attend? Why not teach them how to have good sex before they get married and you won’t have the problems?"
Please tell me what in this statement has anything to do with premarital sex? If the argument is being made that members of the church desperately need this kind of seminar because Joe Beam has some technique to show us how to bring our spouses to sexual ecstasy then why not teach this to people before they get married so that they will not have these problems? Why wait till they have the problems?
Again, I ask the question, have you viewed the 15 minute video?
~ rick
By the way, on the autonomous argument, I would ask this question, are you a member of the congregation where I worship? Are you in any leadership capacity here? Then how can you presume to tell me anything? Autonomy is not a one way street.
~ rick
By the way, on the autonomous argument, I would ask this question, are you a member of the congregation where I worship? Are you in any leadership capacity here? Then how can you presume to tell me anything? Autonomy is not a one way street.
So what you are saying is it is okay for you to stand in judgment of the decisions of elders from a congregation to which you do not belong, and no one has the right to call you to task for your actions using that same standard.
You should become a politician because you are very adept at deflecting all concerns and questions towards you, and turning them against others.
This appears to be a fear of self-reflection on your part, because to admit that you overstepped your bounds in addressing the decisions of elders is to admit that you have violated the 'pattern' of how the NT chuch is to operate.
I wonder “Christian Baptist” did you fail to read the whole correspondence before you jumped in with both feet. I am not the one who used the autonomy argument to suggest that one cannot criticize the leadership of another congregation. Listen, if you or others desire to take me to task – go ahead, but do not turn around and say that it is sinful for me to do the same thing that you do without condemnation. That is hypocrisy and that is exactly what Jesus was dealing with in Matthew 7:1-2.
I am simply suggesting that it is a two way street. If you believe that it is wrong for me (overstepping my bounds in addressing the decisions of elders and thus to violate the pattern of how the NT church is to operate) then it is wrong of you to criticize me for I am an autonomous being who serves in a different congregation that you. If you do not believe in making these kinds of judgments quite making these kinds of judgments! It’s as simple as that. If you believe the NT authorizes any man to call into question the behavior of another then there is no discussion here.
It would appear that “Christian Baptist” may have graduated with a major in psychology and only a minor in Bible. Find me the pattern (if you believe in a pattern) wherein it is wrong to address the decisions of elders.
~ rick
I believe that the autonomous congregation argument means that whether you or I agree or disagree with the decisions made by the elders, it was their decision and based on their congregation's autonomy they have that authority.
It is not inappropriate to voice concern, but if anyone not belonging to that congregation begins to pressure them to change their decisions, then the whole concept of congregational autonomy goes out the window.
The tradition to which you belong is known for its position on congregational autonomy. Yet throughout its history men have consistently interfered in the affairs of congregations they were not entrusted to minister in or oversee. Does congregational autonomy truly exist? Or are congregations only autonomous as long they make decisions a select few men throughout the country deem to be correct?
I wonder???
Thanks for some great thoughts Christian Baptist.
In order to have a good discussion we must not only both use the same definition but the correct definition and have an understanding the ramifications of the words we use. The word “autonomy” (ôtŏn'əmē) [Gr.,=self-rule], simply means self-government or the right of self-government; self-determination. It refers to individuals, congregations and/or governments. Outside pressure (positive or negative) does not negate self-government.
For example, Wal-Mart is a self-governed body yet at the same time we can discuss and even encourage others to phone, write, or even e-mail the main or local bodies for a change in policy regarding their promotion of homosexuality. I, as an autonomous individual may even encourage others to boycott Wal-Mart. But when the rubber meets the road the decision to promote homosexuals will be in the hands of the leaders of Wal-Mart, not me.
Friends, the same is true with the elders at Del City. They can (1) See the error of their way and revoke the invitation to Joe Beam; (2) Give in to pressure (positive or negative) and revoke the invitation to Joe Beam; or (3) Ignore all this pressure and have Joe Beam anyway. But when the rubber meets the road they are the ones making that decision. I have not in any way violated the biblical doctrine of autonomy.
~ rick
By the way I noticed that “christian baptist” ignored the question regarding a pattern. I do wonder for what reason?
~ rick
"I believe that the autonomous congregation argument means that whether you or I agree or disagree with the decisions made by the elders, it was their decision and based on their congregation's autonomy they have that authority."
What if the Preston church of Christ elders decided to have a noted atheist come and teach on the fact that God is a myth and evolution is true? Would anyone object? Is it in their authority to do this?
If you object, you've condemned yourself.
If you don't, you sanction and condone soul damning error.
Should the church pay for a SEX siminar with the Lord's money? Or should that money be used to minister to the lost? Is the church in Del City even paying for this from the treasury. If so, can the church also pay for sending me to Vagas to learn how to reach vacation ecstacy?
Some very good points made by this anonymous.
An eldership's deligated authority can not exceed the authority that God has given it.
~ rick
Having in the past worshiped with Del City I can tell you the error of their ways started years ago when they sought to turn from the scripture to rely upon their ideas and ideals as to what the Church should stand for and be.
Poor leadership implementing decisions contray to scripture has had a devestating effect on the Lord's Church.
Unfortunately, members often must face the decision to leave a congregation or to worship in error when congregations substitute men's desires for the desires of the God. Thank the Lord that many of the men of Faith left before it was everlastingly too late.
It is high time that many of the congregations in Oklahoma follow their wayward brothers in Texas and remove the fascade by removing the Lord's name from the title they have chosen to identify their congregations by.
Let's face it, many lost souls now worship in denominations they have created by refusing the scripture and following their own will.
Repent Del City before it is everlastingly too late!
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